Stop waiting for permission! and other ways to show design systems value, with Brian Alfaro

🎧 listen to Episode #05 with Brian Alfaro on not waiting for permission, how your product teams' success is your success, and why design systems are like a toilet (???)

Read on for a peek into the episode.

Today we really get into the juicy center of this season of the podcast: hearing from design system practitioners about their experiences, challenges, and projects.

If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian Alfaro teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.

🎧 Stop waiting for permission! and other ways to show design systems value, with Brian Alfaro — #05 (43min)

In future episodes, you’ll hear deep-dives from Adriana Morales at HEB, ToniAnn Drenckhahn at BetMGM, Smith Schwartz and Tyce Clee at Spotify, Davy Fung at Meta, and so many more. And yes, every episode has a 🌶️ Spicy Take.

💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, leave a rating or review, or share the show with someone! I love hearing your thoughts and questions, so to text the show or message me on LinkedIn and let me know what you think!

Brian Alfaro:

In terms of the user, they don't see Yahoo as different, they don't see The Post as different. They don't see Facebook as different.

Elyse:

Yeah, they're not seeing the org chart except for in the way like, how come it doesn't work the same over here? And that's just a frustration.

Brian Alfaro:

How it shows up in the org chart will be in the UI. The select looks different. It's clearly because someone didn't talk to someone, but the user doesn't know that. They just think it's a mistake.

So the first thing for me, it's understanding that we're all on the same ship. We're trying to go to a similar direction. And if [teams] are truly pulling in bipolar directions, then that's something that we need to have a conversation about. And that's beyond system teams. That's at a business level. And those conversations, we help influence, at least allow them to happen.

Without that, you cannot really start to even begin to start thinking about a design system, because someone has to be invested, not in a system, but that we're building the same product. That's first and foremost.

Elyse:

I think you said something so important just now, which is that, design system teams can and should influence these conversations around are teams in different parts of the org going in a really different direction? Are they in conflict with each other? Are they working in really different ways? But so often design system teams, end up feeling like they have to own that, and then get really, really frustrated and really, really burnt out.

This is a trap that so many systems teams have fallen into where they're trying to own that, where they're telling the org they're going to own it. How are you talking to your organizations more broadly about, hey, like this is beyond what a design system team can control?

Brian Alfaro:

Actually that was a conversation I recently had here at Yahoo. And it was just essentially that, having a great design system that looks good, that feels cohesive, you could still have a shit product. You know? It doesn't mean that your product is going to be great. I mean there's some really nice design systems out there, and the products are not great at all, right? I've seen folks who have no design system and the product is selling like hotcakes, it's super good.

So what is the role of design system in that space?

I think we do ourselves a disservice by saying, yes, we can resolve this if we just unify our buttons , we're going to do so well. There's a level of investment from like an efficiency standpoint that we could sell. There's a story to tell about the reasoning for cohesiveness, when we think about the user journey and how it is holistically a part of a good product. But it isn't the factor that makes a good product.

Good products still comes from product ideas, business challenges that you're trying to take on, and understanding your user. Systems play a part of that by reflecting the stuff that is being informed by those specific products. Products drive the solutions that we deliver. If they're not driving it, then the solutions we're pushing out is just our opinion.

🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28. Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/ontheme

Into Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers. Get your ticket and support the podcast by supporting our generous sponsor!

See you next episode!,

Elyse